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	<title>Comments on: Muslims under siege?</title>
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	<link>http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/</link>
	<description>Anglocentric news, views and campaigns</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Seb Crankshaw</title>
		<link>http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/#comment-1690</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb Crankshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 01:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/#comment-1690</guid>
		<description>"Charles Martel turned back the Muslim invasion of France, but Spain and Portugal fell, as did the Christian Kingdoms of North Africa and the Holy Land. Unnfortunately, the Crusades failed to free them."

Yes, and the Moors turned Southern Spain into the shining light of European civilisation at the time. They had a decent economy, trade, good healthcare, science vastly ahead of our own, and ulike the Moors in Europe, Christians in Moorish Spain were allowed to practice their religion freely.

As for the OP.

Most of the things you list as evidence of our 'accomodation' of muslims are basic human rights. The idea that Muslims make more noise than any other group is ludicrous. Before 9/11 no-one noticed or gave a shit about Muslims. Now they are suddenly a threat to our way of life.

How?

There's only a couple of million of them at most. Besides, if our way of life is so special and tolerant, and there's is so ignorant and repressive, surely the only way of life under threat would be theirs?

"Violence, bigotry and abuse - all absolutely unacceptable in a civilised society."

You are absolutely right. You know what? I live in an area with an unusually high Muslim population. I tell you what it's sickening.

Number of times I've suffered violence from muslims? Zero.
Number of times I've had to endure bigotry? Zero.
Number of times I've suffered abuse? Zero.
Number of people I personally know or have heard of who have suffered at the hands of muslims? Zero.

Sadly you fall into the all to common argument of 'Islam says'. Firstly, I'm not sure I'll take your word for it thanks. Have you read the Kor'an? Do you actually know what it specifically says on the issues you describe? Even if those are true representations, you also neglect to mention that Islam, unlike many other religions, preaches tolerance of all other religions. Christ and Buddha are revered as prophets. Scientific inquiry is encouraged, as are charity and cleanliness.

Of course it's scriptures have aspects that can be interpreted as 'bigoted'. So does the bible. If you're going to accuse an entire religion of bigotry because of what parts of it's holy book say, then at least be honest enough to broaden your diatribe to ALL religions, because aside from Buddhism they pretty much all have repressive and bigoted attitudes towards homosexuality, women and blasphemy too.

Muslims, just like any other minority group, make an easy target because by and large they lack the wealth and power to defend themselves on an equal basis. The only difference is that, by virtue of 9/11 and 7/7, it's a lot more acceptable to make dubious assertions about muslims than anyone else.

Yes, I suppose you could argue something like 'they' brought it on 'themselves', but then again terrorist bombers hardly constitute a large proportion of the hundreds of millions of muslims in the world.

On that basis, we ought to be doing a lot more against catholics, protestants and indeed secular Britons and Americans, because we've backed terrorists and terror sponsoring nations with guns, money, guns and more guns.

Countries like Pinochet's Chile, Suharto's Indonesia and, last but not least, our continuing support of Saudi Arabia, sponsors of 9/11.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Charles Martel turned back the Muslim invasion of France, but Spain and Portugal fell, as did the Christian Kingdoms of North Africa and the Holy Land. Unnfortunately, the Crusades failed to free them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, and the Moors turned Southern Spain into the shining light of European civilisation at the time. They had a decent economy, trade, good healthcare, science vastly ahead of our own, and ulike the Moors in Europe, Christians in Moorish Spain were allowed to practice their religion freely.</p>
<p>As for the OP.</p>
<p>Most of the things you list as evidence of our &#8216;accomodation&#8217; of muslims are basic human rights. The idea that Muslims make more noise than any other group is ludicrous. Before 9/11 no-one noticed or gave a shit about Muslims. Now they are suddenly a threat to our way of life.</p>
<p>How?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s only a couple of million of them at most. Besides, if our way of life is so special and tolerant, and there&#8217;s is so ignorant and repressive, surely the only way of life under threat would be theirs?</p>
<p>&#8220;Violence, bigotry and abuse - all absolutely unacceptable in a civilised society.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are absolutely right. You know what? I live in an area with an unusually high Muslim population. I tell you what it&#8217;s sickening.</p>
<p>Number of times I&#8217;ve suffered violence from muslims? Zero.<br />
Number of times I&#8217;ve had to endure bigotry? Zero.<br />
Number of times I&#8217;ve suffered abuse? Zero.<br />
Number of people I personally know or have heard of who have suffered at the hands of muslims? Zero.</p>
<p>Sadly you fall into the all to common argument of &#8216;Islam says&#8217;. Firstly, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;ll take your word for it thanks. Have you read the Kor&#8217;an? Do you actually know what it specifically says on the issues you describe? Even if those are true representations, you also neglect to mention that Islam, unlike many other religions, preaches tolerance of all other religions. Christ and Buddha are revered as prophets. Scientific inquiry is encouraged, as are charity and cleanliness.</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s scriptures have aspects that can be interpreted as &#8216;bigoted&#8217;. So does the bible. If you&#8217;re going to accuse an entire religion of bigotry because of what parts of it&#8217;s holy book say, then at least be honest enough to broaden your diatribe to ALL religions, because aside from Buddhism they pretty much all have repressive and bigoted attitudes towards homosexuality, women and blasphemy too.</p>
<p>Muslims, just like any other minority group, make an easy target because by and large they lack the wealth and power to defend themselves on an equal basis. The only difference is that, by virtue of 9/11 and 7/7, it&#8217;s a lot more acceptable to make dubious assertions about muslims than anyone else.</p>
<p>Yes, I suppose you could argue something like &#8216;they&#8217; brought it on &#8216;themselves&#8217;, but then again terrorist bombers hardly constitute a large proportion of the hundreds of millions of muslims in the world.</p>
<p>On that basis, we ought to be doing a lot more against catholics, protestants and indeed secular Britons and Americans, because we&#8217;ve backed terrorists and terror sponsoring nations with guns, money, guns and more guns.</p>
<p>Countries like Pinochet&#8217;s Chile, Suharto&#8217;s Indonesia and, last but not least, our continuing support of Saudi Arabia, sponsors of 9/11.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Wildgoose</title>
		<link>http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/#comment-1320</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Wildgoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/#comment-1320</guid>
		<description>Absolutely.

Charles Martel turned back the Muslim invasion of France, but Spain and Portugal fell, as did the Christian Kingdoms of North Africa and the Holy Land.  Unnfortunately, the Crusades failed to free them.

The Eastern half of the Roman Empire and much of its learning was finally destroyed with the fall of Constantinople in 1453.  Fortunately for us, fleeing refugees carried this knowledge with them and helped kick-start the Western Renaissance.  Within 40 years the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal) was finally liberated.

The fighting and invasions continued in the East, Vienna being besieged twice, with Poland coming to their rescue.

The tide was turned.

It can be again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely.</p>
<p>Charles Martel turned back the Muslim invasion of France, but Spain and Portugal fell, as did the Christian Kingdoms of North Africa and the Holy Land.  Unnfortunately, the Crusades failed to free them.</p>
<p>The Eastern half of the Roman Empire and much of its learning was finally destroyed with the fall of Constantinople in 1453.  Fortunately for us, fleeing refugees carried this knowledge with them and helped kick-start the Western Renaissance.  Within 40 years the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal) was finally liberated.</p>
<p>The fighting and invasions continued in the East, Vienna being besieged twice, with Poland coming to their rescue.</p>
<p>The tide was turned.</p>
<p>It can be again.</p>
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		<title>By: allyson rowen taylor</title>
		<link>http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>allyson rowen taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forengland.org/blog/2008/07/06/muslims-under-siege/#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>Your words ring so true. I think you are right, and the rest of the world better wake up. I am afraid of the Muslims, their shariah states kill or convert the infidels. I am an infidel, and I will die as one. I woule never submit to Islam, and rather die. 
Bravo for stating what others think, but act like dhimmis and keep silent.
check out my website for what I post as well

http://shariahfinancewatch.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your words ring so true. I think you are right, and the rest of the world better wake up. I am afraid of the Muslims, their shariah states kill or convert the infidels. I am an infidel, and I will die as one. I woule never submit to Islam, and rather die.<br />
Bravo for stating what others think, but act like dhimmis and keep silent.<br />
check out my website for what I post as well</p>
<p><a href="http://shariahfinancewatch.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://shariahfinancewatch.wordpress.com</a></p>
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